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Poster: Hg80 Date: Apr 16, 2011 3:59pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

"The kids need protection and it might as well start here."

Just how many "kids" visit the Internet Archive? I know of no statistics and if they did they will probably be found at the "audio" section.

Protect your own kids with knowledge and quality value judgements. I think your objection lies with the visual offerings and if you wish censorship then, as I said before, every file at the Internet Archive must be reviewed and evaluated. Petition the curators of the Internet Archive with your request. You will find that they are not in the business of censorship but offering material for entertainment and scholarly research. You will find that what is obscene or offensive will have no definition.

You want to ban offensive or subversive materials? Ever heard of Marx or Nietzsche [might as well dump the works of Plato] or as I mentioned before vintage stag films or any feature film [and trailers] here with tabloid violence, eroticism, or divergent political perspectives.

You know, I find some current television programs offensive ["Bones", "Criminal Minds", "The Big Bang Theory"]. I don't complain...I just don't watch. Suggestions: Watch your child carefully and instill a sense of good ethics. Keep in mind that there is an "off" button.

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Poster: derkman96 Date: Apr 16, 2011 6:56pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Kids definetly visit the archive.

How many kids visit the Archive...? I happen to be a child (14) and I tell all my friends to visit. I sort of agree that things like snuff films should be removed. Mainly because it serves no purpose on the internet archive (as far as I can tell)
If this video was on any other public video site (such as youtube or the like) it would be removed immediately without question.
...but that's just my opinion.

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Poster: Hg80 Date: Apr 17, 2011 5:40am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Kids definetly visit the archive.

Wikipedia definition...

"A snuff movie is a motion picture genre that depicts the actual death or murder of a person or people, without the aid of special effects, for the express purpose of distribution and entertainment or financial exploitation. For-profit snuff films are generally regarded as an urban legend, whose persistence demonstrates more about our anxieties than the reality of such films being made."

The video under discussion is not a "snuff" film but rather a record of a political/religious act.

Again, it is the visual representation of a horrendous act that disturbs people. Enter key words like "suicide, gore, death, executions, etc" into Google's image search engine and observe what is displayed. And I believe that Google video still offers for viewing Ruggero Deodato's "Cannibal Holocaust" where human violence and real animal cruelty is depicted.

Again, there are no statistics that provide the chronological age of Internet Archive viewers...thus, no conclusion can be drawn regarding child participation.

Again, if the description and video still clips offend you, don't watch it. Remember that the Internet Archives is a repository of all sorts of free material to be accessed by the discretion of the participant for the purposes of entertainment and scholarly research.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffNoiseCollector Date: Apr 25, 2011 10:41am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Kids definetly visit the archive to watch jihad

I find it extremely difficult to use the jihadist videos for masturbatory purposes so I would argue against that. Although I have also referred to them as snuff in the past, but only to infuriate and/or amuse myself.

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Poster: aphexbr Date: Apr 20, 2011 12:23am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Kids definetly visit the archive.

" I happen to be a child (14)"

No offence, but you have a lot to learn about life if you think that censorship is in any way positive. While the video in question is indeed vile, it's flagged as such and the comments below clearly state what the content is. This should be enough for any intelligent human being to make a judgement as to whether or not they want to see it - that decision should not be made by somebody else on your behalf. Time to grow up if you don't understand that.

By the way, when I was your age, I was watching Faces Of Death, Cannibal Holocaust and other movies, purely because they were banned in my country (UK), and that was back in the days when VHS was the only way to get them. When word gets round that films are being banned from a forum like this, it actually causes people to seek them out. Censorship is not only not a positive thing, it's utterly ineffective.

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Poster: R Pal Date: Apr 20, 2011 3:40am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Kids definetly visit the archive.

I was hoping derkman96's age statement would be ignored, but since it has come up again I suggest some copyright fact checker do this. Run a search of derkman96 forum posts and review the comments. Then follow the music links to band photos. That may help determine the age of the poster.
And don't censor the small amount of information that we can get from IA. Translate what the videos are saying and cringe.

PS, I'm old and have a grey beard. The R stands for radio. If you need to know how to wind a coil for you crystal set, I'm your guy.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffVideo-Cellar Date: Apr 20, 2011 4:19am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Kids definetly visit the archive.

I looked at derkman96's post history and it might seem too obvious, but the common meaning to a number in someone's user name is birth year. '96 checks out for either 14 or 15 years old (depending on birth month.)

It is not unusual for a person of that age to be interested in material from the past. I know that 15 years ago when I was 14, I couldn't be bothered with much of the new stuff that was being made and mostly listened to old music and watched old movies.

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Poster: PortlandTomcat Date: Apr 17, 2011 6:49am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

What if it was your son having his head cut off in a video? Would you still think it was a censorship issue?

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Poster: Hg80 Date: Apr 17, 2011 6:57am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

What an absurd question. This is not a personal issue but one of philosophy and generic social content.

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Poster: R Pal Date: Apr 17, 2011 7:01am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please behead this video

Yes, please focus on the issue.
Should the Archive behead this video?
The Internet Archive makes avaiable a video that shows a beheading held as public sports event. This video is a vivid reminder of the cultural mindset of a people others may not see or otherwise may not understand.
Should that be hidden?

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Poster: PortlandTomcat Date: Apr 17, 2011 4:18pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

I'm sure it's not an absurd question for that man's family. Try answering it, instead of arguing.

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Poster: Hashjihad Date: Apr 17, 2011 4:27pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

I totally agree with some of the comments up above. I showed my room mate this, and was like holy FUCK this is some crazy shit. Then we realized well if no one ever see this crazy stuff then no one will never know that it is actually happening.

Based totally on American Values of freedom and what not, I would say you should not take down this video. First off, it is not even that gruesome. I play a lot of video games, and let me tell, Video Games have amazing graphics now, and can be very Graphic. I have seen countless heads flying off of countless animated bodies, and seriously the quality of this video is pretty bad and is almost hard to tell if it is real or not. (Until they show the crowd, WTF is this Ancient Rome or something.)

If it was my son, I would be pissed, BUT I might want it to stay so others learn about the crazy stuff going on in the middle.


Furthermore I did some research on the Video, and it says clearly in the File labeled Comments: "what has been taken in blood cannot be regained except by blood"

First off none of us really know what this guy did to get his head chopped off... but it seems to me he killed someone. Hmm what do Americans do when someone kills someone, well sometimes we execute them. I am going to be a hard core Devil's Advocate here and suggest that they didn't have the money to execute him humanely so they chopped off his head.

Bottom line is censoring equals ignorance. Here is a question for who ever likes to answer. What if the man being beheaded, killed your son?

P.S. TO the guy who thinks porn is ruining are country. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa Have you been to any clubs lately? DUDE I do not need porn to go have wild sex with slutty girls...its called HARD LIQUOR and BULLSHIT Club Music, and girls who think dancing is rubbing their ass on your dick. Welcome to real world... Oh I forgot you censor everything out of your life so you wouldn't know. Wal-Mart does a hell of a lot more damage then MILFs from LA who wanna get fucked.

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Poster: PortlandTomcat Date: Apr 18, 2011 5:12pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

Wow. You did answer it, and I have to admit that I didn't think of the issue from that angle.

If someone killed my son, I am sure I would want that person to die. I see no reason why my son's killer should be allowed to continue living if he has deprived my son of his life. In the interests of justice, I would also agree that a public execution would likely, if not certainly, serve as a powerful deterrent to anyone else temped to kill. Of course, we don't have public executions here - but still, that seems to be a part of the issue this video raises.

There are no perfect answers on the issue of murder and punishment, and capital punishment isn't a perfect answer either - but as an on-going policy it's about as close as we can get. However - I can't be sure if the person killed in this video was a murderer. I know that it is allegedly from a country where people are sometimes killed for religious reasons, and I'll work under the assumption that this is the case.

(I know the legend reads, "What has been taken in blood cannot be regained except by blood," but religious people use blood as an analogy all the time. Even Christians have ceremonies in which they regard wine as the blood of Christ. The legend may not be literal, especially in that part of the world. It doesn't prove, or disprove, that the person killed is a murderer)

On a related issue...

Expecting parents to police the entire Internet is like purposefully crashing a car because you're wearing a seat belt. You can't just assume that SOMEONE'S put all the needed safety measures in place for you, or that they will work flawlessly. You can't assume every parent is 100% perfect. One thing about being a parent is that your faults as a man will be realized. No parent can watch their kid all the time, and computer programs like "Net Nanny" and "Cyber Sitter" are not fool-proof, either. Again - there is no perfect answer. If it's out there on the Internet, children can - and sometimes do, I'm sure - access it. How much damage is done by that probably varies from child to child in the same way personalities vary. I think the issue is about how MUCH you care about great big political ideas like censorship and freedom, versus how much you care about small (But no less important) issues like individuals, individual needs and rights, and protecting children.

I know which is the bigger issue to me.

You may disagree, and that's fine. I don't hate you - or think less of you - or feel the desire to insult you - just because you don't agree with me.

More on the censorship issue...

Expecting a website that has disturbing content to put up warnings pages, or even requiring that users verify their age before access controversial content, isn't really censorship anyways. I think if censorship as having the government BANNING something. If people ask for something to be removed, and the website voluntarily removes it - that's nor censorship to me, either. People on BOTH sides of an argument have rights - not just the side you agree with. Raising the question of censorship when people ask "Please remove this" (With the word "please" included) seems like over-kill.

What about a warning page describing the video, with two links beneath the description. One link goes back to the main page, and one goes to the video. How would that be?

I remain unsure that there is a perfect solution to this issue. Until there is a perfect solution, I also ask...

...ASK, mind you - not DEMAND...

...that the video be either removed, or be preceded by a warning page.

That's all I've got tonight. Thanks for reading...

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Poster: skybandit Date: Apr 18, 2011 11:50pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

Well said!

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Poster: Hg80 Date: Apr 17, 2011 7:19am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

Indeed. It is visually offensive but does serve a purpose...as "R Pal" wrote: "a vivid reminder of the cultural mindset of a people others may not see or otherwise may not understand."...a learning process in progress of another culture.

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Poster: The Watchtower Date: Apr 17, 2011 8:40am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Please, Please remove this video

Despite its subject matter this piece of footage is of significant importance. The video more than proves that Darwin was correct with the Origin of Species, Archeologists need search no longer for Transitional Fossils connected with human evolution.

This item clearly demonstrates that man did indeed evolve from Apes.

The hairy human cousins that we all know and love still hang around throwing feces at each other, we hairless humans still hang around throwing verbal feces at each other, and 'the missing links'?...

...they are all in the Middle East!.